R2RB Podcast - Indie Artists and Women Entrepreneurs Chronicles
Paul Callan: Irish Roots, Indie Vibes, and Creative Perseverance
Jan 10, 2024
Deb LaMotta
Singer-songwriter Paul Callan from County Louth, Ireland, joins us with his guitar and stories, taking us through his musical evolution and the indelible mark of Irish heritage on his work. From his traditional beginnings to the indie sound he's crafted, Paul's artistry is a testament to the resilience and creativity it takes to forge one's path in the music industry. His candid tales include a chance meeting with Johnny Marr of The Smiths, revealing the layers of influence that have shaped his sound and the freedom he cherishes as an independent artist under a London-based label that supports without constraining.
At the heart of our discussion, Paul opens up about the challenges and triumphs he faced during the lockdown period, which saw him undertake the ambitious project of creating a song each month. This led to his first solo album, a labor of love that reignited his passion and honed his skills in music production. He delves into the process behind his album artwork and thematic storytelling, offering listeners a window into the soul of his music. It's a reflective look at the journey of an artist who remains fervent in pursuing the art he loves, favoring his recent work and continuing to evolve despite setbacks like music theft.
Our conversation also navigates the waves of technology in music, particularly the role of artificial intelligence and its implications for the creative process. Paul shares his insights on self-promotion and the ever-changing landscape of music distribution, highlighting the enduring power of radio and the internet in connecting artists with a global audience. As we wrap up, Paul teases his upcoming third album, promising rich collaborations and further innovation. We part with an invitation to explore Ireland's flourishing independent music scene, a wellspring of talent and passion that Paul Callan embodies and is ripe for global recognition. Join us for an episode that celebrates the spirit of Irish music through the eyes of one of its own.
Singer-songwriter Paul Callan from County Louth, Ireland, joins us with his guitar and stories, taking us through his musical evolution and the indelible mark of Irish heritage on his work. From his traditional beginnings to the indie sound he's crafted, Paul's artistry is a testament to the resilience and creativity it takes to forge one's path in the music industry. His candid tales include a chance meeting with Johnny Marr of The Smiths, revealing the layers of influence that have shaped his sound and the freedom he cherishes as an independent artist under a London-based label that supports without constraining.
At the heart of our discussion, Paul opens up about the challenges and triumphs he faced during the lockdown period, which saw him undertake the ambitious project of creating a song each month. This led to his first solo album, a labor of love that reignited his passion and honed his skills in music production. He delves into the process behind his album artwork and thematic storytelling, offering listeners a window into the soul of his music. It's a reflective look at the journey of an artist who remains fervent in pursuing the art he loves, favoring his recent work and continuing to evolve despite setbacks like music theft.
Our conversation also navigates the waves of technology in music, particularly the role of artificial intelligence and its implications for the creative process. Paul shares his insights on self-promotion and the ever-changing landscape of music distribution, highlighting the enduring power of radio and the internet in connecting artists with a global audience. As we wrap up, Paul teases his upcoming third album, promising rich collaborations and further innovation. We part with an invitation to explore Ireland's flourishing independent music scene, a wellspring of talent and passion that Paul Callan embodies and is ripe for global recognition. Join us for an episode that celebrates the spirit of Irish music through the eyes of one of its own.
Today on the R2RB podcast I have Paul Callan, singer, songwriter from County Luce, Ireland, and did I pronounce that correctly? It's Lous Lous, as in so.
Speaker 2:
That's.
Speaker 1:
Lous. All right, Thank you and welcome Paul. I appreciate you being here and joining me. How are you?
Speaker 2:
I'm great. Thank you very much. County Lous has the honour of being the smallest county in Ireland.
Speaker 1:
Does it? Oh my gosh. So I always have to say, whenever I'm speaking to somebody from Ireland my grandmother was from Belfast.
Speaker 2:
OK, but an hour away.
Speaker 1:
Oh, that's not far. Oh, wow, ok, all right, but you live out on the outskirts of the city. You're away from the hustle and the bustle.
Speaker 2:
Well, I'm also an hour away from Dublin, ok, but we're very fortunate. We have a, we own a woodland and I kind of hang out there.
Speaker 1:
That sounds like a good place to hang out.
Speaker 2:
Yes.
Speaker 1:
All right. So I like to ask two questions to get us warmed up. If you could collaborate with any singer songwriter, who would it be and why?
Speaker 2:
You know, I was thinking about this and I think of MF Doom have you heard of MF Doom. No, he's a rapper, but I suppose he's. They say he's your favourite rapper's favourite rapper, but he's just a very unique artist. Unfortunately he died, I think last year, but I would, I would feel some kind of kinship with him because of his method, his production method, you know. Oh, OK.
Speaker 1:
Very good, Very good. Worth checking out. I will absolutely. And if you could have one superpower, which one would it be?
Speaker 2:
I would love to have the superpower that would only surround me with good people and positivity. That would be a great superpower to have.
Speaker 1:
That would be a fantastic superpower to have. I might share that one. So share with us about your musical journey. What inspired you to pursue a career as an independent artist, and was music always with you, part of you, from early being, at an early age?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, my mother. When I was younger she made me, force me. She wanted to go to learn traditional Irish music and that I wouldn't be a fan of traditional Irish music. But I unknowingly learned all the fundamentals that really stood to me later in life when I really wanted to play music and write music. I also played in a brass band as a kid.
Speaker 1:
Oh, wow.
Speaker 2:
So that kind of also helped, because everything on my recordings I do on my own. So all these things I learned as a kid. As I said, I didn't really feel like I was learning anything, but I really did, you know, and it stood to me. But the big influence, I must say, was Johnny Maher, the guitarist from the Smiths, and everything about him. The sound, the sound was, even though it was a very familiar sound to his 60s music, but he just had a swagger, you know, it was amazing and I wanted to do that. So at the end of the meeting, johnny Maher, completely by accident, oh, wow.
Speaker 2:
I lived and worked as a bicycle courier in London in the late 1980s, and then I was having my lunch on a park bench and he was beside me only Johnny Maher.
Speaker 1:
No way.
Speaker 2:
It was very cool, a bit of half an hour of just chatting.
Speaker 1:
It was very nice, oh my gosh Of all places, eating lunch on a park bench.
Speaker 2:
Well, it was called Soho Square and a lot of record companies were based in Soho Square, so you wouldn't know who you'd see there.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I like that one, oh my gosh. So describe your music, because I know it's been described as alternative rock and I think it's more.
Speaker 2:
Well, you know, it's not that I would find it hard to pinpoint it I don't really operate within any. I try not to operate within any particular genre. It's indie music or independent music. But the only real constant in my songs would be me, and I think that's the best way to be. Really, you know, it's like the big single songwriter or musicians or bands I love in my life. There's only one of them so, and they would be hard to classify some of them too, you know. So I suppose it's rock and roll in the broader sense, but I apply myself, and because it's just me, I like to switch heads and try to do as best a job in every role as I can. So that's the best, the best combination I can give you, yeah, yeah, no, and being an independent artist.
Speaker 1:
What is that for you, being an independent artist, being able to be completely your true self?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, well, I was involved in a lot of bands and over the years and there's always struggles in bands and for whatever reason, for power or ego or just being bored with each other. I suppose, being independent, I can make any decisions I like. There is a record company I'm kind of involved with. It's an independent label from London, but they just accept my music and tell me the like. That's about that. You know, it's an added, some added poodles to be associated with them.
Speaker 2:
But, yeah, I do what I like. Basically it's beautiful my son I'm an 11-year-old boy and he hears it in the process and he sometimes offers up some nuggets. But yeah, it's just about doing it myself, you know.
Speaker 1:
Is there a downside to being an independent artist for you?
Speaker 2:
I mean not really to be honest. There's nothing I really want, there's nothing I think I'm really missing, except the private jet. Everything's good as it is.
Speaker 1:
And the private label that you mentioned. Do they help you distribute your music?
Speaker 2:
No, the kind of, I suppose, would help put the word out. They call it a garden ward, they're based in London and they would also send my music out to radio sessions and for review and things like that, you know.
Speaker 1:
And you write your own songs, and where do you draw your inspiration from? And have you written songs from the very beginning?
Speaker 2:
Yes, when I was a kid I was playing a tin whistle, you know like a penny whistle. I learned how to play that and I would learn traditional Irish music and then I started trying to learn songs I really liked and picking out melodies. And melodies really were a trap for me. So from an early age I was kind of thinking about melody and what it meant for me. But then the Beach Boys, who are the pinnacle and, I suppose, the template for everything I love, like any other bands or musicians. I like them because there's shades of the Beach Boys there, you know. So everything starts with a melody for me and sometimes it comes and sometimes it doesn't. So I'm lucky that I can operate on whimsy, you know when I feel that I do it. So there's no real explanation for me where it comes from and I could watch lyrical and say the birds and the trees and all that. But it's not that it just happens, it's just talks, really, you know.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, it's amazing because that's one of the questions I like to ask what the writing process is, or what you draw from, and I always, I always, and everybody's different. Everybody has a different process and of course, that's where all this great music comes from, because it is so different. Can you share a memorable moment or experience that has shaped your musical career thus far?
Speaker 2:
Well, you know, I was thinking about that one too. Unfortunately it's a negative one. I was a good foil back. I was immersed in music and I was actually playing with the band. But there was record company interest and we were bolstered by the responses we were getting. But my music was stolen. I won't go into it beyond that. It was a fairly major thing and it was certainly a major thing to happen in my life. There was some success brought to the people who stole my music After a while. Of course these were my friends that were there. It was very upsetting but it made me think that there must be something worth stealing. So I kind of rely on that a bit, you know, as a positive experience in the end.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, it took a negative and turned it into a positive.
Speaker 2:
It took a long while. It wasn't an easy thing no, not at all, but it was a horrible experience, oh yeah, but yeah, anyway, it happened and here we are.
Speaker 1:
And here you are. And here you are, Absolutely so actually I was going to ask you about you know, your Irish heritage and the influence on your music, but that's just been a part of it from the beginning.
Speaker 2:
Well, everybody in Ireland has a story or a song and there are a lot of bands and a lot of musicians here on the world stage. Ireland's a pretty heavy hitter. So the traditional if your question is regarding the traditional music, I suppose, like I learned as a kid but I most certainly wouldn't be a fan of it, I've tried it later in life, I've tried to find something in it, but it doesn't do it for me. But being Irish definitely does something in us that has to get out.
Speaker 1:
It is, oh my gosh, and just real quick, because I mentioned before we started the interview, my grandmother being from Ireland as well.
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
Speaker 1:
I think everybody from Ireland. Either they sing or they play an instrument, or and she could do both. She had a beautiful voice and she played the harmonica.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, yeah, you know the most Irish people I've met. I lived in Cleveland for a couple of years in Ohio. Oh wow, I met an awful lot of Irish people in Ohio.
Speaker 1:
That's great. Oh my gosh. Yeah, we're a great group. So during I love this one during the COVID-19 lockdown, you made a commitment to release one song a month. So why did you challenge yourself to do that and how did it all work out?
Speaker 2:
Initially I was. I was really trying to knuckle down. I stopped for playing music for a long time and in probably a year or two before lockdown, I was trying to get my mojo back or, you know, get into it. But a friend suggested I was considering maybe working on an album, but that could take 10 years, you know, yeah. So a friend suggested why don't you commit to one song a month as an exercise? So I committed to it and I had to do it then because I committed to myself and I did it once every month. It became my first solo album. So it was tough and really cool and amazing and I couldn't have been more immersed. So I also learned how to use my equipment properly, you know. So it was good for that.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, sometimes, when you're put in that type of position, so much more comes out of it because, just like you just said, you had to learn your own equipment even better.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, Well, it was also averaging about three songs for every once to get one song. It was quite a lot of work and I'm very fortunate for me that the inspiration when it happens it tends to come easy. But the 99% perspiration, especially like I bought some equipment just before lockdown and then lockdown happened, it was great. I didn't excuse to sit at it.
Speaker 1:
Right.
Speaker 2:
An excellent project. Definitely I would recommend it because not only the writing and music, but recording it, producing it in every way, artwork do, finding radio stations to play it, and it was incredible. Yeah, total flex.
Speaker 1:
Absolutely. I think some of the best music has come out came out during that time as well, because I think, exactly for what you had said, everybody was so totally immersed into it.
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
Speaker 1:
So focused on it that, yeah, it's a lot of great music came from there. Who does the artwork for your albums? I do everything myself.
Speaker 2:
Do you? Yeah, yeah. Again, it was all just just go into it and experiment and see can I do it. And a big thing for me as being on my own is having to have remind myself that I can do it. You know you're sticking your neck out quite a lot as a solo artist.
Speaker 1:
Absolutely.
Speaker 2:
And so I just applied the same rule with everything else do it and just ignore what I might think people think. It's been positive. It's been a great exercise too, and I really enjoy it, yeah.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, no, I find your artwork very intriguing and putting the artwork with the songs that are in that album. Now does each album have what I would say would have its own message? Is it all kind of interlocking with each song, with each other?
Speaker 2:
No, not necessarily. You mean like a concept. Yeah Well, the FUNZY, the first album, my first solo album. I suppose the concept behind that was to deliver it in a year, so everything was connected in some way. And then the running order on the album was, as they come out, like January through to December, and then, to spice it up, I had another couple of songs to put in as well.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, that's it. Yeah, the long playlist.
Speaker 2:
The second one. The last one, I suppose, was the first time I ever approached an actual project to sit and write however many songs to whittle it down to. There was 14 on that album, yeah, so that was the first time I ever. I suppose the concept there was to see could I do it and not drive myself crazy? But I was lucky all your time? And then I sent some early versions to the record company and they got on board. So there was another kind of impetus to keep going. So no concept except completion. That's the concept.
Speaker 1:
So, from that very first album that you put together to your last album, which is Over my Wishes, yes. So over how many years, from your first album to now?
Speaker 2:
They were all done from. The first album was released six months before the second one.
Speaker 1:
Oh well, okay, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:
Once I stopped and it was in direct relation to my music having been stolen my reaction to it was to stop, because I felt that once I had put myself out there and I had raised my head, so to speak, and the result was there was people waiting in the long grass to steal from me Friends, as I said. So I stopped, and I stopped for quite a while. So once I took the chocks out from under the wheels, I kept it going and still going to.
Speaker 1:
Good, good, good. I'm very happy with that, absolutely. Do you have a favorite album or song amongst all that you've done?
Speaker 2:
I think it's a common thread would be the most recent. Some in the initial stages would be my favorite, but it can get pretty intense when you're. It's a lot of repetition when you're producing, you know Right, and the short answer is the most recent thing I'm dealing with is my favorite.
Speaker 1:
Oh, nice, cool. So what advice would you give another independent artist just starting out? What would you advise them to do, not to do what would be at the top of your list?
Speaker 2:
Well, you know, for me the beauty is in the doing and realizing that really let me flow and let me love it and let me enjoy it. So to anybody in the same position is really look hard at your motive. If you want to be famous, I think there's a possibility you're wasting your time. But if you want to make, if you want to do, if you want to create, well then do it.
Speaker 1:
Absolutely, absolutely. So this is the other question I've been asking lately. Ai artificial intelligence with chat bot and chat GPT. Do you have any thoughts? Do you have any feelings on it? Have you used it?
Speaker 2:
I'm in the middle of nowhere here and it suits, so I don't think that's anything I would even consider dabbling with. It sometimes feels like recording on a computer is cheating enough because of the infinite tracks. Like I can create orchestral pieces here on my own. That feels like cheating. I don't need an orchestra Like 50 years ago you would have needed an orchestra so I'm cheating enough without doing that. I don't understand it anyway, to be honest, yeah, I've been doing my little research.
Speaker 1:
I've used it here and there in different things, but if you don't really take the time to understand it, it can create a big problem.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, there's a narrow fear about it, really isn't there yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
Speaker 1:
And last year I remember saying to my partner, I said to him we were talking about something and I said AI is next. Because no, it's not. I said yeah, it is here we are, You're already yeah. Yeah, so you do all your do your own recordings, you do your own editing, producing, mastering, and then you also do all your own marketing.
Speaker 2:
Everything. Yes, you know I don't have a very big budget. If I had a budget, there's elements of it. Other people would most certainly be better than I am at it, but at the minute I am doing it all on my own.
Speaker 1:
So which platform do you find works the best for you?
Speaker 2:
Radio stations.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, like I'm very lucky, because of people like yourself, deborah, my music's been played all over the world. I don't know how to, how I would promote myself on Spotify. I make videos also. Some people watch them, but there's not millions of people rushing to see them, but it's just an experience. My son helps me on some of them and film them or we discuss ideas. But yeah, as I said, it's in the doing. It was nice to get a bit of an acknowledgement. As I said, the Gardeux Nord, the record company, got involved. But yeah, I suppose the short answer to that is I don't know, radio stations mostly.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, it's so nice that we can still turn to something that's been around forever and that really has been a pinnacle for the music industry all around. And now, of course, we take it from one level FM, AM and now online and around the world in less than 30 seconds and actually. So how I connected with you was through Paul Dillon, P-Mad, I believe.
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
Speaker 1:
You and I would never had connected had I not been. You know I've interviewed Paul and he does the best of Irish Indie now for R2RB. We play it after on Sunday. So yeah, this worldwide web has. I don't know if we ever thought I know I never thought when it originally came about this internet that we would be at this point where the whole world is opened up to everyone and anybody that can get connected.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, incredible. I think there was the first few months when I put an EP out. That was the first thing I offered up to the internet world and it was incredible. In the first few months of that I had done more than I had done all the years prior when I was involved in music. The internet wasn't really a thing, but just it's incredible what you can do.
Speaker 1:
Absolutely. And just even for myself too, just with the R2RB and everything, I wouldn't be doing this if it wasn't for the internet.
Speaker 2:
Here you are in the woods in Ireland Right Having a chat.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, it's incredible, exactly so. What's the best way for people to get in contact with you or find your music? What's the best platform for you?
Speaker 2:
My music is on Bandcamp, so it's Paul Callum at Bandcamp. It's very easy, but tune into cool radio stations like yours, deborah, you'll hear my music. And on Facebook and Instagram it's just Paul Callum. If you're interested, try that.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, absolutely. And so what are you working on? What do you got coming down the pipeline?
Speaker 2:
Well, I almost finished recording album three. I'm hoping to have it ready at some point late spring and I'm speaking to a very cool friend of my wife who's an amazing graphic designer and I'm trying to see will she do the artwork for it? She's absolutely amazing. So that would be cool and not to think about that because I'm not a graphic designer. So you have to think like 10 times harder, you know, but that's what's happening at the minute and making, making more music and recovering in time for February, I suppose. So this year I got both my hands done. There were a long time coming, and so it's nice that I'm this side of that.
Speaker 1:
Good, good, good. We need more music from you. Thank you very much. You're welcome, paul. Thank you so much for being with me on the R2RB podcast series. Is there anything else you'd like to tell the listeners that I haven't touched on?
Speaker 2:
Well, nothing more than what Paul Dylan said For you American listeners. There's a lot of fantastic music coming out of Ireland, a lot of fantastic independent music. There's worlds within worlds everywhere, but Ireland has an awful lot going on. So have a nose around and see if you can find something.
Speaker 1:
Absolutely. I second that, Paul. Thank you so much.