Jill Culver Counseling

Counselling for Clarity, Connection and Growth

How do you know when it is time to try counselling? this is the question that you will see on Jill's website.  And this is her answer:

Perhaps you feel that your life is lacking connection, joy and authenticity.

Maybe you find yourself feeling depressed, anxious, stressed or just kind of “meh”.

Possibly your relationships with others are causing you to question yourself, your choices and your future.

Or maybe, things are changing in your world and you are not sure how to navigate this new reality.

Jill shared so much more!

Transcript

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Hi, and welcome to Women Entrepreneurs spotlight. I want to welcome my guest, Jill Culver of Jill Culver counseling. And Jill, you're out of Canada, correct? That's right. Okay. And thank you so much for being here today. Appreciate it. So there are two questions that I like to ask to get us warmed up, tell us something interesting about yourself, most people don't know. So this is a more difficult question than you would think. Because nobody thinks that they're particularly interesting, right? So I had to sort of ask around, and one of the things that came up and people who know me, no, this but of course, your listeners wouldn't is that I have moved in my life, probably about 20 times, wow, I move a lot. And I used to really, sort of feel bad about this. And it was kind of a source of shame that I moved so much, I felt like, you know, it meant all of these things about me until somebody commented on it. And I just sort of said, I'm semi nomadic. And then I started to identify as semi nomadic and real, so I'm gonna just own this, this is just who I am, and just expect that I'm going to move every year. And so maybe living in recreational vehicles and my future, because I seem to have always have a reason to be on to the next place. I liked the RV. And you laugh, but I've thought about it for myself, too. It's definitely many YouTube videos watching people that are doing that right? Oh, my gosh, absolutely. What advice would you give your 16 year old self? I think the the advice that I would give to my 16 year old self, I think it's good advice at any age. But it sort of ties into the nomadic thing is just, it's okay to be who you are. And I think I didn't really get that message a lot from other people from my family, from friends from society. And I think that just really allowing myself to know that it's okay to be exactly who I am. And the things that I want are legitimate things to want. And the way that I show up in the world has value. And I think I really struggled with that a lot. And so that's the advice that I would give to my 16 year old self. Yeah, I think we are hard on ourselves, too. But looking back, I know for myself at 16 I wanted to be independent and on my own. But yet, I was very happy going home at night. Right? Say about teenagers, right? Still, they need their home like roots and wings, right? absolutely. I like that roots and wings. So why did you want to start your own business, and where were you before you started your own business. So as well as moving around a lot, I've also changed jobs a lot, it seems like sort of go hand in hand. And so I've sort of been self employed in various capacities. But right before I started this counseling business that I have now, I was working as a social worker for a health authority. In the hospital, I was working in community mental health, you know, sort of those two things were where I spent my time working. Yeah, for like a large health system like mental health that we have here in Canada. So bit of a different system than in the States. But that's where I was working. And then coming forward, what prompted you then to to start your own business. Um, I think working in a large health authority like that a big organization, there's lots of rules. And a lot of those rules. Maybe it makes sense for the organization, but don't make sense on an individual level. So I felt like I wanted to be able to help people in a different way than I was allowed to do in the context. So that was definitely part of it was wanting to be able to work with clients in my own way. The other part of it was, you know, that freedom, peace and that nomadic peace, I remember, it was December, and I had a position working in the hospital. And I worked in an office that had no windows and a concrete building. And I remember it was December, and we had to give our vacation requests for the whole year ahead. And I got I think I got three or four weeks of vacation. So the bosses told me what weeks you want to be off out of the next 52. And I'll let you know if it's okay, depending on seniority and depending on who else wants those weeks off. And I found it so depressing, and so distressing. That not only did I know which weeks I was going to be away, because I'm like, Oh no, I'm doing next weekend, right? Like I don't I don't plan ahead or spontaneous. So I found it depressing that I had to know which weeks I was going to wait be away but also really depressing that that meant that my boss was going to be in that chair in that concrete windowless room for the other 49 weeks of the year. And I thought oh no, I've got to I've got to do something different here. I've got to and I think that was the push that let me know. Okay, let's start to see what else you can do. See what else is out there that will allow me to have More freedom and flexibility? Oh my gosh, yeah, I would be I would feel the same way being like that. Lots of people find comfort in that lots of people really like to know where they're going to be and when they're going to be there and what weeks are going to be sitting on a beach in Hawaii? And what weeks they're not. And some people that just feels great. They feel really safe with that, and it works for them. For me, I'm the opposite. It does not feel good. Right? Right. Yeah. And absolutely. People do, you know, schedule their lives differently. And I think for myself doing for a whole year, I couldn't maybe I could do every three months. I could tell you, maybe this is the way I want it. But we're doing a whole year. Absolutely. So counseling, you're in the counseling field, but you only do counseling online, and how has that experience been for you and your clients? So I knew that I wanted to be an online counselor when I first started and that was in 2018. Okay. Because going back to that nomadic thing, right, I yeah, I was like, from the get go, I really want to be if I want to go and stay with a friend or go to Ontario and stay with family. I knew that I wanted to be able to do that. And to be mobile. However, online counseling, there were a few people doing it. But it wasn't really a lot of people didn't really understand they thought maybe it wasn't as good. You're like, why would you do that? So it was a bit of a hard sell. So I had a small office space that I rented. And this was in Victoria, British Columbia. And then as you may have heard, there was a pandemic, which was a terrible thing. Yes, absolutely. For anybody who wanted to online, it was a great, absolutely. The thing that allowed people to sort of understand that there's benefits to doing, you know, health care, or counseling or anything like that. And I think some people really prefer in person, and that's great. They're not my people. If you want an in person, counselor, there's lots and they're great, right? If you want to be in the comfort of your own house, have your pets there, you know, not have to come you don't have to get child care, you know, be able after the session to close the computer and have a good cry with your dog. Yes, you can do that. Yeah, online counseling. So some people who also some of my clients like to move around as well, right? Like, they can meet me and access me no matter where they are. And so it works. The pandemic really sort of, I think left us forward in case of online services, enrolling online counseling. So you have you have your clients that don't have a problem with online, and I think there's probably more people today there that are happy that they're able to connect through the computer. And I also don't have to market to just my neighborhood where I can mark it. I'm licensed in British Columbia and in Ontario, and I can mark it to all of those people, right? So there might be fewer people, you know, per square kilometer or square miles, you would say, but when you open it up to the entire internet, right, as far as the places I'm licensed Ontario, labia, there's lots of people, right. So absolutely. Now would it have to be another process if you became certified in the United States? The systems are very, very different from what I understand. And if I was to be, you know, want to be in the States permanently, and stay there, then I would have to it's a three year internship program. And yeah, so it's and the licensing the whole licensing procedure, and it state by state. So that wouldn't open me up to higher states, it would just open me up to the state that I was in license. And also, I feel like the systems are different. Without getting into too much of the philosophy of it. I think the American system is much more insurance based and also medical based, like you have to really diagnose somebody and say you have this mental illness in order to get reimbursed. And I think the Canadian system what I do anyway allows much more like you're struggling a little bit right now. Let's talk about it. Right. Yeah. So yeah, it's the mental health issue here in the United States is is a whole nother conversation that would take more than an hour. Yeah, for sure. So the short answer is no. I could. I don't want to write because my I mean, freedom is one of my highest values. And it doesn't seem to me like it supports freedom. It's like it supports more rules, more regulations. Yes, insurance period. on your homepage of your website, you have a section that says how do you know if you need counseling? And I think I think that would help someone who's on the fence about counseling. So how have you Koreans commented on that question that it's helped them to make that decision to call you. They haven't really but I think it probably does. And I want to be clear that it does say that on the website to sort of encourage people to jump off the fence. And at the same time, I think every But he could benefit from counseling, I don't think there's anybody amongst us. So couldn't benefit from the human experience of sitting down with somebody and having them pay attention to you and only you for a full hour? And have you be able to talk about some things that are going on for you. So having said that, generally people come when they're having suffering, when there's a problem that they need to overcome when it's interfering with their daily life. That's usually what pushes people off the fence. So it probably has, but nobody has specifically commented that that's, well, yeah, no, I liked the question. Because I know I'm a big advocate for counseling, you know, I've told all my kids like, you have a problem, I can only help so much as a your mother, but you need that other person who's not emotionally attached to you to work through whatever might be going on in your life. So I think that just having that question in front of you, just really, for me, says, I think I think I think I need to get off the fence and make a phone call. So at this point, I let everybody in Canada know how they can get in touch with you. So there's my website is www dot gel color.ca. And I also have Instagram, which is Joe Cole of our counseling, but probably if you want to get in touch with me, my website is the way to go. My email address is there. All right, so what challenges did you have to work through when you were starting your business? I think, you know, there's all the logistical challenges of do I have an office? Where am I going to rent office space? Who are my clients? I need a website. There's that stuff. That is nothing compared to the mental and emotional breakthrough, that I think not everybody, but certainly I had to have to have enough faith in myself to push down the imposter syndrome to say, yes, you can do this. And even if you know, you put your shingle out, and you get nobody, that's okay. You're good enough? Yes, you can, you can do this. And I think that I mean, it's just to be honest, that struggle never really goes away. But I think, you know, every day that you have that you see clients and then they rebook is a little, it's a penny in the jar of this, you know, you're doing good work out there in the world. But when you when you haven't done it yet, and it just exists in your mind, and you're trying to bring it into reality. And you're telling people and sometimes they're like, Oh, you really want to do that I think the markets really saturated, I'm not, you know, you're not really getting the most positive feedback. It can be it's really to push through that was one of the hardest things I've ever had to do. And I've had another woman entrepreneur, say something similar, where you know, the doubters, those that wouldn't, don't encourage, and saying the same thing, having to really push through and work through that and on a continual basis, because there's always somebody, somebody in your ear saying something, and just like, go away, I'm good, we're okay. I want to just I want to add that some of that was family stuff, like, you know, of course, my, my family had fears that, oh, she's going to starve to death, she's going to come to us for money, she's not going to make it, she's gonna. But also I, you know, I was working in this hospital system full of people who didn't make that choice, right, you know, chose to work for the hospital system, which was probably the right choice for most of them. I was surrounded by other counselors, and you don't get surrounded by other self employed people or business owners, until you take that leap. That's right. I'm constantly around people that are talking about seniority and vacation, and whenever we're gonna get our next little miniscule pay raise, and I'm gonna, you know, slot into this position if I have enough seniority. So you're really surrounded like you're entering a whole different world that you really don't know who's there, what it looks like, if it's even possible, right? So I think that's the other piece of it. Absolutely. Like you said, until you start your own business. And then over time, you get that self confidence, like you said, and you build up your build up your business, what marketing strategy strategies do you use, and what's worked best for you? I think the two things that have worked best for me, are equal parts, having a website that I think is really good, and really speaks to what I call my ideal client. And the same with psychology today. It's like a profile listing for counselors, when really, they have really good SEO, and they charge a monthly fee, and you list yourself there. So that has been I get a lot of clients just from a simple Google search way more than you would think. So that's, I think, probably 50% of it. And then the other 50% is networking with other counselors, right. And so I feel like a lot of business comes from, you know, taking people out for coffee. People have messaged me on Facebook Messenger or emailed me, people that I used to work with that have gone into private practice themselves, checking in with them saying, Hey, how's it going? Who do you want to see? This is who I see, let's cover for, and then there's Facebook groups for counselors, where we, you know, sort of, hey, I'm looking for somebody who does this thing that I don't do or what You know, my client is in for somebody for their 12 year old, I don't see youth. Can you know what I mean? So there's that just sort of being in the community and making connections has been, I think, there 50% of that with your marketing plan? Did you start out using both? Well, you had your website from the beginning Psychology Today. Did you also use that from the beginning? Yeah. Do you use anything else besides the Facebook? I am on Facebook, I am on Instagram. In the entire four years, I believe that we've gotten one client from Instagram. And that was for one of my courses. That wasn't for a counseling appointment. It has been and it's probably not universal across counselors. But it has been my experience that when people are looking for a counselor, they don't think I'm going to open up Instagram on my phone and see what I find, right? They Google or they ask somebody, that's what I that's Yeah, I think that there are things that Graham, but I don't think that that counseling is one of those things that people go to Instagram for. Yeah, I could be wrong. Maybe there's counselors out there, they get all their business from Instagram, but my experience that that's what people? Yeah, we're not gonna go, I agree, because that's where I would go, I would definitely go, I would definitely go to Google. In fact, counseling can help you find hope, joy, connection, and clarity. And can you share what that process might be to find hope, joy, connection and clarity with your client. One of the things about counseling is that it's really difficult to describe, I've heard it said that it's an art and a science. And definitely the check that I do is much more art than is science or people that do, you know, maybe more structured, more evidence based, you know, we're going to work on this. And then this, and it's very prescriptive. The cut type of work that I do is not prescriptive, it's we sit down, we connect person to person, you tell me a little bit about what's going on for you. And we get really curious about why that might be. And we walk that path together, and it doesn't sound like that will lead to clarity, freedom and joy. Right. And yet, I don't have you know, do these 10 things, and then you'll feel joy. It's much more of a investigative process. And, and we do it together. So I think that is and usually the client is sort of the leader. And so that is more that is how that process works. For me, it's, it's, it's almost mystical, really, it's really hard to say, to understand to describe what can shift just through the process of sitting within being and like I said, before being having their full attention on you, and have them provide a different perspective, support validation, and, you know, ask gentle questions and allow space for emotion to come up that maybe was a little stuck, or you weren't aware was there. So it's like a holistic healing process. Who are what motivates you? What motivates me, as I've said before, is, it's twofold I'm really motivated with client, like with my client work, I'm really motivated to show up and to provide that space for people that they might not get anywhere else in their life, and to be truly non judgmental. And I advertise on my website, you know, that I work with people that maybe have things in their life that people find a little bit, people get judgy about. And so to really be that place where it's like, you can have to show up exactly as you are, and I will be able to meet you there. So that really motivates me is to be that space and that place for people. But what motivates me business wise, is what I've talked about before is freedom is having, knowing that I made the decisions about my business, which means that I make the decisions about my life. And I feel like people often think that having your own business as a social worker, and having your own practices selling out. But I actually feel like that's one of the most radical things that we can do as women and as people, because I don't want to were talking to people, I don't want to talk to working with clients that I don't want to see. I mean, it wasn't that horrible, there were lovely moments do know, working for assists, don't necessarily believe in right, and when you realize you can free up from that and help people the way you want to help people and show up 100% authentically for people that really motivates me and teaching other people how to do that, whether it's, you know, I have my courses that I run for other people who want to start counting is just one way that that can look like there's a lot of ways that that can look like but for me, that was the step that got me to that place of like, you don't want to work at 10 Like I found myself rushing to be ready to see my 10 o'clock. And then after that day where I felt I was like rushing to see somebody at 10 I was like, Oh, I'm just gonna move my schedule to 1111 I didn't know to ask anybody. Right did it. Yeah, so That motivates me really well to know that I make the decisions that are best for me in my life, right. And then, and then it becomes a really a personal endeavor with with clients, absolutely. Friends and for my kids and I can show up in other areas of my life, because, you know, I still have to work, I like working, I stay up to clients, I still got to put food on the table, I still have to, you know, keep lights on. But I can I can show if I need to take up I went to my daughter's graduation from college, wow, see that I could just take the day off. It didn't have to ask anybody. So that that really motivates me. And that was and that is a question that I asked. My guest is like, how do you balance your will with you with your counseling business and with your family time? Because your counseling business isn't nine to five? Do you have set office hours, my counseling business is not a nine to five. My counseling business is a two to seven, Mondays and Thursdays and 11 to six Wednesdays and Thursdays. And so that is when I have time that I actually see clients and because I'm licensed in BC and in Ontario, I can sort of capture those sort of late night people. I don't see anybody in the morning, if you're a morning person and you want counseling at 8am. I'm not drinking alcohol just to live in. Yeah, don't call me. So it was not really a nine to five, I probably work at it 35 to 40 hours a week. I mean, you have to do charting, you have to do marketing, you have to answer emails, like there's a lot of things that have to be done, just to keep it running. And I probably, but as for like when I in Canada, I think sometimes in the states the way insurance works, I have heard through podcasts and stuff that counselors with the C 3540 people in a week, I don't do that I see. 1620 is like the most I've ever seen in a week. But 12 to 16 is sort of my sweet spot. And that financially, you know, that does it for me. And so what I teach people in the course that I teach is to look at your grades, look at how much time you have, and see what it is is going to work for you. Right rather than being a slave to all the insurance companies only pay 50 bucks a session, therefore I have to see 40 people in a week. So it's not an and that's what I like about it. Yeah, absolutely. And so what you're talking about is the private practice roadmap, which is an online course that you designed. You want to tell us about it more? Yes, it is a course I've taught it live a few times. And I'm actually going to teach it live again in January, which is where we meet on Zoom and go through it week by week. But I'm in the process of putting that program that I've taught, I've tried it twice now over six weeks, making it like what they call an evergreen course where you can just buy it and you'll get the information videos, workbooks, modules, resources. And it's really to capture, I wanted to help people who were like me in 2018, who are like, I mean, I asked business coaches, and they had some useful things to say, but they didn't really understand the business of counseling as it exists in Canada. And it's especially I think social workers in Canada and BC and Ontario are not as they don't feel as confident they don't get a lot of private practice training in school, if any. And a lot of them maybe didn't really go to school thinking oh, one day, I'm eventually going to open up a private practice. But now for whatever reason they're thinking about it. And they don't even know where to start, like what do I do about taxes? Do I need a website? What should my website say? They have no idea. So the private practice roadmap kind of leads you through it over the six modules. Okay, this is the first thing to worry about. You got to know who your clients are, you got to know how many clients you're going to see in a week, you have to know Are you online, like those sorts of things. And then we go into your website and marketing and finances and all that sort of stuff sort of week by week, it kind of unfolds until can teach everything in one course. A lot of the information stuff. Alright, so that's what that is. I would have taken that course in a heartbeat when he saved me so much time. And so that's really who I designed it for. For those people who are like, I don't even know where to start. I don't know what questions to ask. And so many of us even for myself, you where do you start? So having a having this course offered and being able to sign up for it is a godsend to so many people that they don't even know they need this that yes you do. When I taught it live, the feedback that I got from people was I was just thinking to myself, I really wish that there was some course that I could take, and you know what I mean? So and So told me that you were doing this exact course which is exactly what I needed at this time and many of them have gone on to open their private practice. If you have said you know what, I'm talking this information in my back pocket. Now's not the time. You know, but I know that I can do it when I want to do All right. So I'm thinking that even if you're not in the counseling, your basic outline for starting a business, you could still use so many, you know, people starting women entrepreneurs starting out, they don't even know, like you said, how to start, where to start and who to call. So having something that available, I think, on any kind of level would be helpful to anybody starting starting their business. So was with a startup with your private practice roadmap and your counseling? Did you yourself have a business plan in the beginning, I did not have a business plan, and do not have a business plan now, except in my head. And so I think that, for a business plan, I think it's important, like I said, and like we talked about in the course, is to know who you're seeing how you're gonna mark it, like the it's a fairly simple business model, you're trading money for time, there's not that many moving parts. And so I feel like, I feel like having some idea and maybe some stuff written down of what you're going to do is really important. I would like to maybe dissuade people from feeling like, oh, I need to have a business plan. And usually, the reason one of the reasons people have a business plan is because they're going to take that business plan to the bank. Yeah. And they're gonna get a business loan. Yes. And I think, like, what I sort of, I mean, you could do it, if that's what you want to do. And I'm sure people do that. It never works out fine for them. Right. But for me, and for the type of people that I work with, I think it's more like, No, keep your day job. Do this on a Saturday morning, see how it goes, see how you feel, you know, maybe take that four day a week, or that three day week position? And do this a little bit on the side, right. And so I feel like a lot of people think, Oh, I have to do a business plan, I have to get help with that. It's gonna be this long. And then I have to go to the bank, I have to sign a year lease on an office and I have to hire an admin person. And then they never do it. Because it seems complicated. And you're making it complicated and risky. Yes. When really, if you have insurance? Yep. Because you today profile and you have a computer, you can be making money. And then once you've proven okay, I can do this, I like this. And people will pay me, you know, then you can decide, Okay, do I want to reinvest some of the money that I'm making into getting a better office space or into upgrading my computer? Or like a ring light would be good? You know what I mean? Those sorts of things? Absolutely. You can sort of reinvest in it. Oh, yeah. I caution people on having a complicated business plan, because I think it can be a procrastination thing, as opposed to for this business. You're gonna open up a MacBook manufacturing? Absolutely, you need it. No, as model is simple. Exactly. No. And I agree with you, especially for small businesses. And I've, I've said this in other interviews, just have an eye, like you said, have an idea in your head, have a few things down on paper so that you have something started and as you grow, and if you need it, you already have a basic plan that you then can grow. And if you start out with the big stuff, right from the beginning, like you said, you're gonna talk yourself right out of it. So thank you for sharing that because I think people still women, entrepreneur, numerous needs to hear that, that it is okay. Not to have everything set in concrete, when they when they're thinking about starting their business, because my daughter is also a entrepreneur. And she also said the same thing, just do it. Try it, what do you have to lose? In whatever business you're going to start? So absolutely think think about your plan in your head, put a few things down on paper. When I first started, I was convinced that my clientele was mostly going to be perinatal postpartum people. And people with new babies like that was, you know, first year of parenthood pregnancy and, and because I had worked with that a lot in the hospital, I'd worked as a postpartum doula. That was what I felt comfortable with. And I see this with a lot of social workers. They're like, I'm going to work with, you know, frontline workers, because they're a frontline worker, and they feel comfortable with that. I didn't know that I was gonna end up seeing the breadth and the depth of people that I see in my practice I was. So if I had done a business plan, it would have been completely focused on that thing, right? It didn't really reflect my practice at all within about six months. Like really step by like, especially at the beginning, it evolves so much, right? Who's gonna walk through the door, who's gonna say, you know, hey, do you see couples are going to refer these 10 couples? Do you like you don't know what's going to happen? Right? So I think if we get too stuck in a business plan, which is what I would have done and kind of did do, it doesn't allow us to sort of open ourselves to the opportunities that might fall right in front of us. What advice would you give to another woman entrepreneur starting their own business? Um, I would say Believe in yourself, even when it's really hard to believe in yourself. We it's only been very recently when it's actually been okay for women to own to have a credit card. I mean, it's only it's in my mom's lifetime that it wasn't okay to have a credit card, right. So this is this is radical and new for us as women to say, we used to have to get your husband's signature to have a bank account, right. So we don't have a long history of being told that this is okay to do. And so know that it's hard. And believe in yourself. And then the other piece that I would say is get support, if you have to pay for support, pay for support, but it might be harder than you think it will be to get good support and, and support that's appropriate for you and support that feels good. But also isn't just a yes person. Right, finding both those together, and finding support that's relevant to the work that you do, can be challenging as well. Right. So, I mean, it doesn't have to be exactly what you do. But I think it's good if they understand the world that you work in. Absolutely. And one of the goals that I am working towards with the women entrepreneurs spotlight is to build a network that other women can reach out to and ask questions, you know, have you run into this problem? How did you fix that problem? You know, do I need a business plan? Do I not need a business plan, and I would love to add your name to that list. I will eventually have a group on Facebook or wherever, where we all can reach out to each other because like you said, it's so important to have that person, mentor, just somebody to talk to about about about business. And it's funny that you should bring up about, we're still new women entrepreneurs, it's still a new thing. And I think that's the other part of me sharing your story and all the other women entrepreneurs stories that everybody all of you have brought something different. And yet, you all have a common theme in starting your business and growing your business. And I have enjoyed listening to everybody's stories. And there's so many more to be heard. So thank you so much. Did you have a mentor in the beginning, did you have somebody, I had other counselors that were the kind, you know what I mean, and then I did hire some business coaches. And that was encouraging. But sometimes their advice was a bit misguided for the world because it's different. It's something there's so I had other counselors who were very kind and who I could reach out to, and who really encouraged me. And so that was great. And then I met the person that I call my business bestie about a year ago. And that has been that's been fantastic. It's a whole different type of relationship. And so when you having that business bestie sometimes they're elusive, they can't just like you know what I mean, but when they show up a really big difference. So you know, that's in of course, Lynn who like Ephesus publishing, she's my website, under slash business consultants. She's fantastic. She's awesome. She's great. And so I've, you know, had lots of conversations with her. You know, it's supposed to be about my website, but it ends up being well, you couldn't do this. How can you feel that way? And I've seen this work, like she's really great at that. So yes, she also does have hash, it's awesome. I said, She's fantastic. And also I want to say I did have help, but it's still a lonely road. So because you could have helped, but you're making the decisions, and you are dealing with the consequences of those decisions. And nobody's doing that for you. So it's different than if you work for a company or even you have a business partner, something like that. Yes, absolutely. I agree. I want to thank you so much for being my guest today on women entrepreneurs spotlight. I would love for you to tell everybody one more time how to get in contact with you. My website is Jill kava.ca. And on Instagram, I'm Jill Culver counseling. Been a pleasure. Thank you so much for being my guest today. I look forward to talking to you again down the line. When I put the interview on the radio show. What I am doing going forward is I'm hoping to have either live Collins from the My interviewee or there's also a chat room so I will be talking again. Oh, it would be fantastic. I look forward to it. Great. Well, thank you so much you have enjoy the rest of your day. You too. Thank you. You're welcome.